fearlessly proclaiming the truth & the other truth! voice of the teknoshamanic institute
tax loopholes and subsidies for which you dont qualify
Published on June 9, 2004 By kingbee In Current Events
mention of tax loopholes and subsidies as the equivalent of social welfare programs in other blog articles seemed to elicit a chorus of denials such things exist or a condescending concurrence while dismissing any comparison as largely irrelevant. in a sense, there is no comparison. the entire cost of all us social welfare programs in 2000 was 26.4 billion dollars (including administration). estimated loss of tax revenue from just three categories of benefits extended to large corporations and extremely wealthy individuals for the same year was nearly 82 billion dollars.

those categories are capital gains tax reductions, accelerated depreciation and agribusiness subsidies available to tobacco growers (annual average is 18 billion alone; more about that down the list).

as far as tax loopholes go, one of the best is no taxes at all. in the early 90s, 37% of us-based transnationals with assets over $100M paid no US federal taxes; the average tax rate for those that did pay was just 1% of gross receipts.

if you own a small business, you probably cant tie up your operating capital in tax free municipal or utility bonds. pity. those who can don't pay an aggregate total of 9.1 billion dollars in taxes on their earnings.

life insurance companies are allowed to deduct their cash reserves even if they don't pay that amount out in claims thereby avoiding about 7 billion dollars in tax liability annually.

own a ship? you're in luck. agree to let the pentagon use it in time of war and you get 3.5 million bucks a year pretty much free because the us navy has more than enough of its own.

your corporate jet entitles you to landing fees at public airports for much less than commercial carriers pay. like 200 million dollars less for all private jets per year.

if you're a multinational like archer daniels midland, your corporate motto should be CA-CHING. not only are you getting subsidies for growing lots and lots of corn (like your share--like most of-- the 5.5 billion paid out annually) but since the price of sugar in the us is set artificially high, you get to sell tons of the stuff thats making us all as fat as corn fed hogs (notta bad analogy since high fructose corn syrup is a constituent of just about any label you care to check). don't forget the larger part of the 500 million set aside for refining ethanol or your piece of the 1.1 billion the USDA pays out to help market your product internationally.

use of public lands produces a lot of money but very little revenue for the public land owners (you and i).

if youre an oil or gas producer, you get an extra benefit because you can write off 15% of your gross income for depreciation as opposed to the poor fools who can only depreciate their actual equipment costs.

the list goes on and on and on and on

Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Jun 09, 2004
Absolutely, it goes on and on!! Great article and glad to see it!!
on Jun 09, 2004

This is it? Sure, corporate welfare exists. I could point out much worse cases than this.  But these are things that aren't realistically available to most companies in most states.

Your numbers are also quite wrong.  The FEDERAL government alone spent $37 billion on food stamps in 2000 (not counting the state contribution).

Companies, btw, only pay taxes if they make money.  The great game of corporate taxes is for companies to try to show they had a net loss.

There are cases where very large corporations are able to screw the government out of taxes. No doubt about it.  But it's not terribly widespread and for you to imply that corporate welfare is even remotely on the same scale as individual social welfare (I mean, where the hell did you pull that "$26.4" billion figure? That's absurdly low and you didn't even specify whether it was state or federal). If you want to have a meaningful discussion on corporate welfare, be genuine about it.

Frankly, as someone who has a company that's about to pay 6 figures to the government in taxes in the next 3 weeks, I get a little miffed when I hear people imply that corporations somehow (as a rule) get out of paying taxes. 

on Jun 09, 2004
Isn't medicaid a social welfare program? Last I checked it is easily over $100 billion.

on Jun 09, 2004
For fiscal years 2002-2004, state governments filled approximately $200 billion in budget gaps by raising state taxes and fees and by cutting services. And during those same years, newly enacted federal tax cuts delivered about as much money -- $197.3 billion -- in new tax breaks for the wealthiest one percent of Americans (households making more than $337,000 a year).

Amazingly, in 2002, Americans in the bottom 20 percent of households paid 11.4 percent of their income in state and local taxes, while those in the top 1 percent paid only 5.2 percent of their income in state and local taxes -- less than half the rate of the poorest fifth.

Current tax policies are fueling the national debt, imposing an average $13,000 in additional debt on each man, woman and child in America between 2002 and 2007 -or more than $52,000 in added debt per family of four.

http://faireconomy.org/press/2004/ShiftyTaxCuts_pr.html
on Jun 09, 2004

Is there any propaganda you don't buy into, Wisefawn?

First off, most state taxes aren't progressive. Michigan, for instance, has a 6% flat tax. So not surprisingly, the top 1% pays only 5% while the bottom 20% pays 11%. Which, btw, still means, the top 1% are paying a helluva lot more taxes than the bottom 1%.

Secondly, tax cuts are just that: Tax cuts. Do you understand? It means people keeping the money they earned.  It's not free money. If the government only confiscates $200,000 from me instead of $300,000 that doesn't mean I got a gift of $100,000. It simply means the government confiscated less of the money I earned.

You want to know what fuels the debt? 1) Welfare programs (medicaid, medicare) 2) Interest on the debt 3) Defense spending.  You want to cut the deficit then let's get rid of medicaid and medicare. You do that and the deficit goes away.

Feel free to devulge how much in taxes you've paid, Wisefawn. Since you seem to be advocating higher taxes. I bet I pay more in a week in taxes than you've paid in your entire life. So don't tell me how I'm getting off easy.

on Jun 09, 2004
Feel free to devulge how much in taxes you've paid, Wisefawn. Since you seem to be advocating higher taxes. I bet I pay more in a week in taxes than you've paid in your entire life. So don't tell me how I'm getting off easy.


Brad,

You seem to take personal defense to every single tax article... the people around here dont necessarily think YOU should be taxed more... correct me if I am wrong, but Stardock is a small business, that is just doing extremely well.... you dont have a private jet though? do you?

Their are bigger fish to fry in the corporate world than Stardock, so dont take these articles as personal requests for YOU to pay more tax... it's just a highlighted injustice on the corporate fatcats, of which I am happy to say, you are not one of.

BAM!!!
on Jun 09, 2004

Yes, I do take tax issues personally because I pay a LOT in taxes and it pisses me off to pay so much and get so little in return.

I resent ignorant people arguing that there's these huge tax loopholes and tax shelters out there for "rich people". 

Muggaz, I'm in the top 1% of income earners. So yea, I take this stuff very personally. If someone wants to discuss income taxes or any of htese other issues, they should knwo what the hell they're talking about and not just spout off nonsense from some left wing site. FairEconomy.org isn't some government agency, it's a far left-wing propaganda site.

Someone like Wisefawn would argue that people like me make too much. Certainly FairEconomy would.  But I ask, how many jobs has Wisefawn created? How much wealth has she generated?  But oh no, the average CEO allegedly makes 300 times as much as the average worker (which, btw, is total bullshit typical of left wing sites -- they compared the average pay of 365 of the largest to the average "production worker" not the average CEO pay overall).  If I'm the CEO of say General Motors managing a company that generates billions and billions in revenue, you bet your ass I should be making 300 times as much as the guy on the line.  He is having to generate vastly more than 300 times the wealth that the line worker has to. Yet these sites rarely seem to have a problem with how much athletes and actors get. 

It's absurd.  People will bitch that the CEO of say Honda makes $10 million a year but no problemo that the guy who plays Chandler makes $26 million for working only half time during the year.  It's selective hypocricy.

It's none of the government's business how much people make. The government is certainly getting its share. It gets over 2 TRILLION in taxes each year.  Isn't that enough for a country whose population is only 300 million or so? And that 2 trillion is just the federal government, not the states who get in the same ballpark in revenue.

 

on Jun 10, 2004
Your numbers are also quite wrong

my qualification of what those numbers represent was inaccurate for this reason. social welfare is a nebulous term that is easiest to identify as a percentage of the federal budget covering all means-limited entitlements and represents about 6% of the 2000 budget. (or about 100 billion). temporary assistance to needy families (which is, i believe, the type of welfare being discussed in the articles to which i alluded) amounted to about 26.4 billion for 2000.

The FEDERAL government alone spent $37 billion on food stamps

i purposely cited only the most abusive agricultural subsidies (corn) because of the complex interrelationship between food stamps and subsidies. the underlying concept is that it should be a wash in that the government provides help to the urban economy with one and assists the rural economy with the other. both are skewed in real life by the fact that a couple hundred large farming enterprises reap the largest benefit and foodstamp purchases dont truly benefit producers.

Companies, btw, only pay taxes if they make money. The great game of corporate taxes is for companies to try to show they had a net loss

making money and net losses arent incompatible in real life. entertainment industry producers love to hand out net points. corporate boards, brokers and investors dont have a problem with tax-free dividends.

Frankly, as someone who has a company that's about to pay 6 figures to the government in taxes in the next 3 weeks, I get a little miffed when I hear people imply that corporations somehow (as a rule) get out of paying taxes.

i didnt imply that at all. unless your company is a multi-national, engaged in specific types of work that the goverment has decided to encourage (wisely or more likely unwisely), spans several related industry groupings, does a lot of contract work for the government, operates primarily on public lands or deals in large amounts of cash, its in the same boat as most people who make decent salaries for actually doing something as opposed to receiving trust fund monies or clipping bond coupons.
on Jun 10, 2004

KingBee: That some companies out there exist that get around the rules is meaningless to any sort of overall context.

It would be like me pointing out that a know of a woman who shoplifted and wrote a post talking about women shoplifters.

The question is what is the norm. And the norm is that companies pay a lot of taxes -- and it's taxation without representation -- companies don't even get to vote in elections.

on Jun 10, 2004
Draginol - the main propaganda that I do not and never will buy into is the conservative propaganda.
Please feel free to show where I have ever said there should be higher taxes, more programs.

"Reply #35 By: Brad Wardell - 3/10/2004 3:48:32 PM
"As much as I dislike AFDC and other welfare programs, vincible is correct. They are a miniscule amount of the budget."
on Jun 10, 2004

Huh? You just wrote how tax cuts are causing all these problems.  What do you think the opposite of a tax cut is?

on Jun 10, 2004
Huh? This is an article about corporate welfare and social programs, which you and I will always disagree on. The social programs are much smaller than the corporate welfare programs and certainly the defense.
on Jun 11, 2004
It would be like me pointing out that a know of a woman who shoplifted and wrote a post talking about women shoplifters.The question is what is the norm. And the norm is that companies pay a lot of taxes -- and it's taxation without representation -- companies don't even get to vote in elections

actually thats pretty much what inspired this thread. someone was recounting how she'd reported a former co-worker for welfare fraud and followed it up by saying she was going to do some research on the total annual cost of welfare fraud. i suggested she take it a step further and compare welfare fraud to the costs of corporate welfare. that prompted several rather indignant denials that there was such a thing, followed by someone else offering to provide evidence to support it.

the thing that always amazes me--and this is truly should not be a left or right issue--is this: there's no dispute that people who receive welfare are benefiting at taxpayer expense but corporations--like the broadcast networks, big ranchers, the oil industry as a whole, big agriculture and transnationals--that take advantage of inappropriate subsidies, price supports or inequities in the tax codes place an equally onerous burden on us. as far as no representation goes, if i could pay 4000 to have a rider attached to the next tax bill permitting me to transfer $210,000 in income per year to a foreign subsidiary and avoid paying taxes for the next 10 years, id consider myself very well represented.
on Jun 11, 2004
that take advantage of inappropriate subsidies, price supports or inequities in the tax codes place an equally onerous burden on us


Are homeowners who claim the mortgage deduction placing an onerous burden on us also?
on Jun 11, 2004

Huh? This is an article about corporate welfare and social programs, which you and I will always disagree on. The social programs are much smaller than the corporate welfare programs and certainly the defense.

Your ignorance knows few bounds.

1) You just wrote how tax cuts are harming everything. Therefore one must assume you are against them. Why not clear it up. for us.

2) Social welfare VASTLY exceeds any potential "corporate welfare". The federal food stamp program alone is larger than all corporate welfare combined.

People like me, who actually pay taxes, resent people like you, who don't pay taxes bellyaching about how tax cuts "for the rich", hurt "the poor".  They don't hurt anyone. It's not the government's job to be mommy. 

I think all welfare, both social and corporate, should be eliminated. But corporate welfare is more myth than fact. Yes, it exists but it is more a matter of individual companies who have managed to work the system. By contrast, social welfare is an actual institutionalized program.

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