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Obviously Some Kinda Sneaky Trick Huh?
Published on August 19, 2004 By kingbee In Current Events

from the la times, august 18, 2004.  article entitled " Kerry Condemns Anti-Bush Ad"

Sen. John F. Kerry took a cue from Sen. John McCain on Tuesday and denounced a television ad by one of his allies attacking President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard.

In the latest twist in an ongoing debate about military credentials, Kerry condemned the new ad by the MoveOn political action committee, even though it was produced in response to an ad questioning Kerry's Vietnam War record.

"This should be a campaign of issues, not insults," Kerry said in a written statement.

Kerry called the ad "inappropriate" after McCain (R-Ariz.), a former Vietnam prisoner of war, criticized the MoveOn commercial. The 30-second ad accuses Bush of using family connections to avoid the Vietnam War.

McCain, who is popular with independents, is campaigning for Bush but has come to Kerry's defense against Republican attacks on the candidate's military record. He recently criticized an anti-Kerry ad that featured Vietnam veterans as "dishonest" and "dishonorable."

Although MoveOn, an independent liberal group, came to Kerry's aid with a counterattack ad, the Democrat said he agreed with McCain that it was over the top.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Aug 19, 2004
I respect his position. But sometimes, you just get so tired of the nonsense that you start the tit for tat stuff. I haven't seen either one, though. And I like Moveon.
on Aug 20, 2004

two things strike me here.  despite all the calls for kerry to do exactly what he did (and i believe he was right in so doing), nobody but you felt it was worth comment.   since kerry took the initiative, it would seem bush should do the same.   im not holding my breath.

on Aug 20, 2004
"Kerry called the ad "inappropriate" after McCain (R-Ariz.), a former Vietnam prisoner of war, criticized the MoveOn commercial. The 30-second ad accuses Bush of using family connections to avoid the Vietnam War."

Kingbee, I think this is where Kerry shows himself(as many of his critics are suggesting, sorry shouting hoarse) as someone who holds no firm opinions of his own.

Why should he condemn this ad? Does he not believe(as most of the world does) that Bush used his family connections to avoid going to Vietnam? If not, then let him come into the open and say that Bush deserves the same respect as himself for playing his role during the Vietnam years.

Kerry is not here and he is not there. Bush may lie and cheat but at least he does it consistently!
on Aug 20, 2004

Bush's team did condemn the swift-vote ad if you recall.

Secondly, Bush hasn't made his miltiary service the center point of his campaign.  Kerry made his 4 month stint in Vietnam.  It's an apples and oranges comparison. 

Though at this point, pretty much only extreme left wing zealots take Moveon.org seriously about anything.  I wish everyone could see the MoveOn.org ad so that people could see how nutty Kerry supporters have gotten. 

You may not like the swift boat ad but it had people who served with Kerry, from the photo that Kerry's campaign used to circulate, actually in it refuting Kerry.  That's pretty powerful.  By contrast, a half-baked "Bush uses family connections to get into the National Guard" just sounds petty given that Moveon.org would be supporting Bill Clinton today if he were running.

on Aug 20, 2004

Bush may lie and cheat but at least he does it consistently

i was trying for a higher moral ground but you just made me spit juice outta my nose

on Aug 20, 2004
two things strike me here. despite all the calls for kerry to do exactly what he did (and i believe he was right in so doing), nobody but you felt it was worth comment. since kerry took the initiative, it would seem bush should do the same. im not holding my breath.


Yes, even if it's just a *wink wink, nudge nudge* criticism, at least one can give the appearance of sincerity.
on Aug 20, 2004

Bush's team did condemn the swift-vote ad if you recall


this is what i recall (from the washington post, august 5, 2004, article entitled: "McCain Criticizes Ad Attacking Kerry on Vietnam War Record" by Jim VandeHei and Mary Fitzgerald)


In an interview with the Associated Press, McCain called the ad "dishonest and dishonorable." Asked if the White House was behind it, McCain said: "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."


Soon after, White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to do so and instead criticized the financing of the ad, saying the president "deplores all the unregulated soft-money activity." McClellan said the Bush campaign had nothing to do with the ad or the group behind it. "We have not and we will not question Kerry's service in Vietnam,"


Secondly, Bush hasn't made his miltiary service the center point of his campaign. Kerry made his 4 month stint in Vietnam. It's an apples and oranges comparison.


if bush had, we wouldnt be having this discussion.  kerry may have focused on his 4 months (for which he volunteered knowing how extremely dangerous swiftboat ops were) in vietnam...you keep neglecting to consider that occured during kerry's SECOND tour of duty. 


Though at this point, pretty much only extreme left wing zealots take Moveon.org seriously about anything. I wish everyone could see the MoveOn.org ad so that people could see how nutty Kerry supporters have gotten.


its pretty easy to find moveon.org...considering thats the url


You may not like the swift boat ad but it had people who served with Kerry


the most telling fact of this whole sorry episode is this: larry thurlow--who now claims the after-action report that led to kerry's being awared a bronze star is wrong in that he witnessed the incident and there was no enemy fire--was also awarded his own bronze star on the basis of the report. which says:  “larry thurlow had maneuvered his pcf-51 over to pcf-3, and by and hopped aboard to offer assistance. the boat was in shambles but they were still returning fire and could not therefore assess any damage”….“all boats received heavy a/w [automatic weapons] & s/a [small arms] from both banks…all boats returned fire …pcf-94 [kerry’s boat] picked up special forces advisor who went overboard. pcf-94 towed pcf-3.”


why didnt thurlow refuse the bronze star?   why hasnt he returned it?

on Aug 20, 2004

Yes, even if it's just a *wink wink, nudge nudge* criticism, at least one can give the appearance of sincerity


im not certain who youre jabbing here but if youre referring to the bush campaign, mores the pity.  cheney is a true master of that kinda thing.  one thing i truly admire about him is that smarmy smile that says (without words) 'you know im lying...i know im lying...but nobody has the balls to call me on it.'

on Aug 20, 2004
Cheney gives me nightmares. I caught just a few seconds somewhere about one of those swift boat guys being proven a liar or something, has anyone else heard it?
on Aug 20, 2004
one thing i truly admire about him is that smarmy smile that says (without words) 'you know im lying...i know im lying...but nobody has the balls to call me on it.'


Yeah, I agree with you, Cheney has a really sleazy feel to him, in my opinion. At least Bush projects an image of an honest simpleton (though neither may necessarily be true), but Cheney just radiates sleaze, arrogance, and ultimately corruption.
on Aug 20, 2004
It has been reported numerous times in the press that Bush was on the record as condemning all these types of negative ads.

Some people either have difficulty with the definition of the word 'all', or else they are refusing to acknowledge Bush's condemnation of all these types of ads in lieu of an ad by ad condemnation.

Nitpicky to say the least.
on Aug 20, 2004

It has been reported numerous times in the press that Bush was on the record as condemning all these types of negative ads


all politicians say theyre against negative ads in general.  it's not at all nitpicky to expect bush to speficially address this issue.


please prove me wrong with a verifiable contextual quote if it exists. i provided  kerry condemnation of  the moveon.org ad smearing bush's service record.   i have yet to read or hear bush repudiating the swiftboatvets (the validity of their claims has now been called into question by every responsible journalist--not op-ed authors--whos looked into them).  

on Aug 20, 2004

No, Bush said he would love to see these soft money ads taken off the air -- ALL of them.

Meanwhile, Kerry quotes parts of F-9/11 to use against Bush.

The idea of a sleazy guy like Kerry winning the white house and thus propelling a trial lawyer to VP gives me the creeps. 

It's pretty ironic that someone who's hoping that the trial lawyer who managed to make C-sections more common because of lawsuits becomes VP would have a problem with Cheney.

on Aug 20, 2004

Wisefawn here is the article you are looking for Link it's on msnbc.com.  It's also what Kingbee was talking about with Larry Thurlow and the report which contradicts what Thurlow is saying.  I also recommend you read this article on the same website that's titled "Report exposes Bush connections to Swift Boat vets"  Link that's also on MSNBC from the New York Times.   I think these links are relative to the topic.

on Aug 20, 2004
all politicians say theyre against negative ads in general. it's not at all nitpicky to expect bush to speficially address this issue.


He has specifically addressed the issue. The issue is about negative ads, regardless of what third party produces them. It is a negative ad. He condemns negative ads.

The refusal to acknowledge this comes across as more of a control issue than a request for condemnation. The problem seems to be that Bush is not condemning the ad in the specific language some people would like for him to.

Using your logic, Kerry supports all negative ads, except for the one SwiftBoat vets ad and the MoveOn.org ad he has singled out to condemn.
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